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July 29, 2010 at 5:51 am #10006
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"Jon":3de29hu9 wrote:
but not in the Catholic world since much of the belief was handed on before the scriptures were written. Scripture itself is something that was handed on.
Have you forgotten about the Old Testament? That has been around much, much longer than when most of your traditions have. Through Jewish Scripture, God has reviled to us many times of the coming of Jesus, the pascal lamb to be slain on the cross.

"Jon":3de29hu9 wrote:
No, you missed the point. “We” do not purify “ourselves” but it is through Christ that we are purified. The stains of sin are purged before full union with God. God does the purging.
If you truly believe that Jesus Christ died for you and for the sins of the world because of his undeserved Grace upon us miserable, sinful beings, why is there even a Purgatory? If asked for forgiveness, The Good Lord will show forgiveness and He’s the only one who truly knows the Sheep from the Ram; the Saved and the Damned; the Repentant on the outside and inside and those who only act like they do.

"Jon":3de29hu9 wrote:
Let us also be clear that “The Apocrypha” includes several books not in the original canon of 73 (the one Luther had foresaken and Catholics still use today) in which the Catholic Church holds that those books outside the canon but in the Apocrypha are insightful but nothing more than that. Apocrypha is a broad term.

Did you know that not only did Luther remove the deuterocanonical books (the ones you call Apocrypha), but he also wanted to remove books in the NT such as James because he couldn’t reconcile the faith and works passages with his theology? I don’t know why people get all excited about Luther, a single man who thought he knew better than centuries of scholars and wisdom. I certainly wouldn’t trust someone that suddenly knew better than everyone else and wanted to eliminate various parts of the established tradition simply because it didn’t fit his view of the world.

Now now, Jon. It would be wise for you to list your sources and please humor me in doing so, otherwise people like Papa.Cod and Ron K will only accuse you of using personal opinions and thoughts handed down to you from other Catholics with the same opinion. The total point of the whole Reformation was a Religious one. Not one of Politics. Not one of Secular agendas. It was truly a change for the better. Luther admits time and time again that he is human and deserves Death, Hell, and Punishment just like everyone else, but because of our Lord Jesus Christ bearing the world’s sin on that cross, because he loved the whole world to send his only son to save us from the Devil and his wicked ways, we are saved. Luther has taught about that countless and numerous times.

"Jon":3de29hu9 wrote:
Heretics, such as Luther, also weren’t new to Christianity, but he happened to exist at just the right time and place culturally for a big movement to take place.

Are you accusing me of a heretic? If you are, you’ve no need to beat around the bush. You can be brutally honest with me (some of my friends are.) Do you truly believe that it so happened to be the right time in History, or do you believe the Holy Spirit had anything to do with the rediscovery of Biblical Salvation?